Little Lolita

A schoolgirl flew back to England today, to be returned to the care of her family. She, aged 15, disappeared from home a little over a week ago.  She was found on Friday, in France, in the company of her male maths teacher Jeremy Forrest. He has been arrested for child abduction under the auspices of a European Arrest Warrant, and, having indicated he won’t fight extradition,  is due to be returned to England for questioning.

The press coverage and social media commentary has been, to some degree, stomach churning. One tweet, summarising a seemingly popular opinion, said:

‘[That schoolgirl] should write a book: ‘My Teenage Years’. Or, ‘How I Cost My Maths Teacher His Job’.

This level of victim blaming is not, sadly, unusual in crimes relating to women and girls. Victim blaming is even more so prevalent when scenarios would appear to involve sex, as this one, prima facie, does.

This is rape culture. Rape culture is a ‘concept used to describe a culture in which rape and sexual violence are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media normalize, excuse, tolerate, or even condone sexual violence.

Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, and trivializing rape’ (Wikipedia).

The problem with rape culture is it allows certain people, and indeed institutions, to turn a blind eye. It is rape culture which lead social services in Rochdale to write off girls who were being raped, sold and sexually exploited, as ‘prostitutes’.

It is rape culture which means that staff did not bother looking why, or how, or take measures to stop these girls being ‘prostitutes’. It is rape culture which allows the ‘wrong’ girls – because it is never the ‘nice’ girls – to be written off as ‘prostitutes’ and allows us to fail to safeguard them – fail to ask the questions which should have been asked, fail to acknowledge we owe them a duty, and quite simply, abjectively, all round, totally, fail them.

Preventing paedophile sex rings like those in Rochdale starts with our attitudes to schoolgirls like this one. No-one, save she and Forrest, knows the nature and extent of their relationship. But what we do know, what the law tells us – and I hope and pray our internal morality does too – is that only one of them owed a duty to the other – a duty of care, a duty to safeguard, a duty not to enter into a relationship outside that of student and teacher. And that wasn’t the schoolgirl.

45 thoughts on “Little Lolita

  1. I so agree. It is rape culture that has allows children to be sexually abused both within and outside of their families. It has been estimated that over 70% of women being treated by psychiatric services have been sexually abused. They are often diagnosed as having a personality disorder and prescribed numerous drugs because the psychiatrists don’t know what to do with them. And more importantly diagnoses are and have to be made on the basis of DSM iv I personally think they should be given a diagnosis of post traumatic disorder which would help alleviate the stigma and remove the “blame” culture. This is a really important issue and could have huge ramifications if we were able to pursue it.

  2. I agree with absolutely everything you say.

    But, something troubles me.

    Maybe for this teacher, [name removed] was the love of his life. He has ruined his own life for this. If this is the case my heart goes out to him, misguided though he was. I wonder if she will be there for him when he comes out of prison (if he goes there). I hope so

    I am 61. I know of several contemporaries who met their future husbands as teachers at school and who have led happy lives together. My sister is one. I started dating my ex husband aged 17 at a youth club where he, 27, was a helper.

    On the other hand at 1 reunion in our 50s another contemporary spoke of how upset she was when our French teacher kissed her out of the blue after giving her a lift: a man we all knew very well and who was still teaching at the time of the reunion.

    I have worked in college where certain lecturers always had a current student in tow via an affair. We know the type I am sure. Whilst at Uni my friend in her 60s walked round in her dressing gown in a daze for several days when her history tutor made a pass at her

    The power relationship is exactly that – powerful – potentially sexually charged. That is why it can be so dangerous. Good persons may find themselves swept along with it on a single occasion (which isn’t to condone it) – bad persons exploit it on multiple occasions.

    It’s tragic

    • Maybe she was the love of his life. But he had a duty towards her, both as her teacher and a an adult in dealing with a child, not to exploit her. It can also be argues that if he truly loved her, he would put her wellbeing first. However he dresses it up in his own mind that is child abuse.

      If he was atracted to her then he could, and should, have waited until she was 18 and no longer his pupil.

      You may know someone who has a happy relationship with someone they met in a teacher/pupil relationship. The fact that some cases may have a happy ending doesn’t make it OK. There is of course also a huge difference between having a relationship with a person whom you first met as a teacher / pupil, and having a relationship with a person while they are your pupil.

  3. [Name removed] may look and behave older but the fact is that she is just a 15 year old child cannot be overlooked. Any parent with children of a similar age can tell you
    that their children, without a certain degree of influence are mature enough
    to make a decision to flee from home with her 30 year teacher who on the
    face of it, should and would have known the difference between a right and
    a blatant wrong abuse of his position.

  4. I normally really enjoy (and often agree) with your writing, but I find a massive illogical leap here, which is really unusual for you. What justifies the huge leap from “Teacher found in France with student” to “rape culture”? Why are you even discussing sexual offences/issues here? Unless you’re privy to evidence the rest of us aren’t, then there doesn’t appear to be an immediate sexual connotation to this. Obviously they consider themselves to be in some form of relationship, but why sensationalise the issue like this? Are we shoehorning everything into a rape narrative now?

    I hadn’t seen any tweets about the situation like the one you’ve posted blaming [name removed]/making light of her situation, but I agree with you that there appears to be a certain amount of victim blaming going on here. I think you can differentiate victim blaming from the wider issue of rape culture. There is, as we discussed yesterday, a legitimate debate to be had over whether [name removed] is old enough to consent to being in such a relationship (notwithstanding his position as a teacher which makes it de facto unlawful). I just think that jumping from “girl found in France with teacher” to rape culture is something of an unwelcome and unsavoury leap. What this guy has done is wrong, but to even raise the hint that we ought to be talking about rape or any sexual offences in this situation, without evidence, is inflammatory and sensationalist.

    • The rape culture aspect comes in even if this man has never done more than hold hands with [name removed] because it is rape culture that allows people to see a 30 year old teacher with a 15 year old child as ‘having a relationship’ and ‘being in a couple’ when in fact he’s abusing his power in so many ways. (And because legally, he would be raping her if they are engaged in sexual practices.)

      Rape culture doesn’t actually have to involve rape you know. It’s simply a way of describing the normalisation of sexual aggression and the idea that women’s bodies exist for the sole purpose of men’s desires. So when a woman wearing a skirt gets a proposition in the street, rejects it and gets called a slut for doing so, that’s rape culture even though she hasn’t been sexually assaulted.

      It’s a continuum. If you start out saying women in short skirts invite comments in the street or that a 15 year old looks all grown up, it’s not a big jump to saying rape victims are to blame for wearing short skirts or that if a woman wants to sleep with someone, she can never be abused by them because she agreed at the start. (And in [name removed] case, sorry, but there is no debate. She cannot consent to this relationship & to compare it to a 16 year old boyfriend as I’ve seen done is missing the point by a country mile.) It passes the buck from the one doing the abusing to the one being abused and it happens all the time especially to young girls, but to all women.

      And funnily enough we women affected daily by rape culture also find it unsavoury, but not in the way you’re suggesting.

      • Helen,

        I do see your point (and Wiggy’s) about the narrative of this situation being part of a wider rape culture. My worry is twofold: first, where does this end? What is and isn’t part of “rape culture”? And secondly, there is a danger of demeaning the actual act of rape if we over-define rape culture. The wider the net of rape culture is drawn, the more likely it is that the horrible demeaning act of rape becomes somehow less serious in our minds. My issue isn’t that we shouldn’t condemn this situation, because we should; but we need to be careful about how we label it. I also think that immediately linking this situation with rape culture creates a potentially false assertion of a sexual relationship, which would obviously be much more serious for both parties. Without knowing even half of the facts, we’re already talking about this situation in the context of rape, which could create a false impression that the teacher has had sex with [name removed]. None of us know whether that has taken place, but we’re in danger of falsely creating that as a fact of the situation.

        In your second paragraph you talk about the normalising of sexual aggression. On the “facts” that are publicly known, where is the sexual aggression? Where is the evidence that the teacher has behaved in any kind of sexual way with [name removed], other than the fact that he’s a man and she’s a girl? The difference in gender and age do not, of themselves, create any kind of sexual situation, much less one of sexual aggression. I’m sure you’re right and rape culture does alter how wider society views [name removed]; but to discuss rape culture in the context of this situation when we don’t know if they even held hands is misleading and premature.

        • I think what you mean is the more you’re confronted with how insiduous rape culture is with its central presumption that women and girls don’t have be asked for consent and their consent isn’t a valid concern, the less you’d like to listen because it’s scary stuff.

          No woman or girl I’ve ever met who has been raped or sexual assaulted (and I’m a Rape Crisis counsellor and victims’ advocate) has ever said their rape has been devalued by being placed in the wider context of a culture that helped created the situation, almost always denied them legal justice and had people blame them for what happened. Most feel liberated by the correct realisation that rape culture is stronger than one individual victim’s voice and experience.

          And while I acknowledge that we have no evidence that Forrest and [name removed] had a sexually active relationship, they weren’t just two mates popping off to France on a booze cruise and sightseeing trip were they? There was undoubtedly a sexual element to it whether that’s been acted on and your insistence on ignoring that completely removes the element of grooming from the equation and allows people to see this as a ‘romantic tale.’

          Jeremy Forrest was an adult man who was in loco parentis. He should never have begun a relationship with [name removed] and removed her from the country whether he’s never touched her or not. She’s a child and he had power over her. And the constant insistence that x must happen to make it such and such leads to the idea that all rape must be violent and that unless you scream and rage, you consented really and that sexual assaul or grooming isn’t as a big a deal because it’s not x after all. It’s just justification of something that is wrong.

      • “It’s a continuum. If you start out saying women in short skirts invite comments in the street or that a 15 year old looks all grown up, it’s not a big jump to saying rape victims are to blame for wearing short skirts or that if a woman wants to sleep with someone, she can never be abused by them because she agreed at the start”.


        You can trace a continuum between pretty much anything and anything else. Even black and white are connected by a continuum that runs through all the intermediate shades of grey.

        Suggesting that two things at different points on a continuum are essentially the same thing (which is what you are doing by lumping these things together under the tag of “rape culture”) is a fallacy.

        Your “not a big jump” comment makes me think you are trying to work the slippery slope fallacy into your post as well. See

        Someone who has said that a 15 year old looks all grown up has said that a 15 year old looks all grown up. It is perfectly reasonable to criticise them for saying that. It is not reasonable to tar them with an association to some other statement that they did not make, and might completely disagree with, just because you think you can identify some continuum between the two statements.

  5. Well put!
    A resident of the UK ought to know whether or not they are breaking these UK laws, surely?
    If one person genuinely cares about another and understands the risks and consequences; it begs the question, why would they even consider such actions?

    Love may not know any boundaries (as the saying goes); but a responsible adult ought to understand ’16 years old’, surely?

    • In respect of teachers (and anyone else in a position of trust in respect of children), it is 18, for very good reason – and he will have received training, and frequently had it updated, underscoring that point.

      • Thanks, Wiggy. Yes of course (18) for the teacher aspect.
        I was referring to the alleged child abduction aspect of this. (under 16). To clarify:

        ‘He has been arrested for child abduction under the auspices of a European Arrest Warrant, and, having indicated he won’t fight extradition, is due to be returned to England for questioning’

        ‘but a responsible adult ought to understand ’16 years old’, surely’?

        Even if they are/were in love, the teacher should recognize his duty of care as an adult teacher.

  6. I’m apalled by the seeming lack of outrage at what has happened here, and many calling it “a relationship”. A relationship between a fully mature adult and a child is not a healthy relationship, it is unhealthy and not positive for the child, nor for that matter the adult.

    They both, in my opinion need a lot of counselling/therapy to get to the cause of why they have entered into an inappropriate relationship. A 15 year old will usually look up to and “adore” mature adults, and a mature adult that sees this as anything other than what it is, certainly must be lacking in other areas of their lives.

    This is not ok, and anyone blaming a 15 year old girl for this really doesn’t have a good grasp on reality either. Yes, they may have “freely” participated, but under the influence of someone that is much more powerful than them, the adult is responsible for holding appropriate boundaries, and must be held accountable.

  7. He was the teacher the responsible adult in a position of *trust* by [name removed], her parents and the school. He entered into a relationship with a pupil even if she had instigated the relationship he should have taken the appropriate steps to stop it and protecting [name removed], an impressionable child. The fact that he did not have the mental ability to see this relationship was wrong makes me question if he should have even been a teacher let alone feeling sorry for him for losing his career. He knowingly took [name removed] a minor out the country without premision of her parents with no intention of returning her, you wouldn’t get away with that as a separated parent that alone a teacher embarking on a relationship with a child!

  8. Thank you for writing this blog and I apologise in advance for responding anonymously, although hopefully you will understand why.

    At the age of 14 I was raped by a man in his 30′s, for many years I belived it was my fault; I’d agreed to go and help catch a couple of horses that were needed for the farrier, ergo I should’ve known that’s what he wanted. I didn’t tell anyone other than my best friend at the time, I was too scared to, I’d already been called a slag by his friend. I couldnt face my parents, I couldn’t face an investigation, I couldnt face anyone, after all it was my fault, I was old enough to know my own mind.

    For many, many years I believed this, it was only when, many years later I underwent counselling (for totally unrelated mateer) that I opened up and spoke about it. I do now realise it was rape, I was 14 he was an adult, I still cannot read or watch andything to do with rape or child abuse, however Iam clear in my own mind it wasn’t my fault. I hope [name removed] in future years will find peace with herself

    thank you

  9. I am sure there will be many articles written examining this from every conceivable angle over the coming months, my perspective is somewhat simpler.

    I am a father. Should a teacher take it upon himself to start a relationship with my daughter when she’s 15 they will never find his body. It’s really that simple.

  10. I think many pople find this case difficult because they remember being fifteen and having sexual feelings so they don’t emotionally relate to the argument that a person of that age cannot consent. What they are perhaps missing is that this case hinges not just on consent to sexual activity (if it indeed it happened, though the odds are it probably did) but on the ability to consent to a relationship with a significant power imbalance. If we buy into the notion that this is a tragic tale of two people dealing with the consequences of forbidden love, we have to ask, what possessed a thirty year old teacher, who should have understood perfectly well the importance of education, to take a young person out of her schooling, to disrupt her life so drastically at such a critical point? What kind of life did he imagine she would have if they made good their escape, say, twenty years down the line when she had no skills or qualifications, perhaps not even a legal identity, and was utterly dependent on him? At best, he can plead stupdity in this regard – these really do not seem like loving actions. They illustrate the fact that there can be other serious problems in a sexual relationship of this sort even if the young person involved does not feel damaged by the sex itself.

  11. it depends on your circumstances at home I think. [name removed] comes from a broken home no doubt she has grown up quickly because of that, I dont know when she will be 16 but she is very nearly the age of consent- I feel sorry for the teacher as someone said, he has ruined his life for her but we dont know the circumstances of their relationship he may well have deliberately kept her at arms length and not had sex with her. We dont know and you cannot assume.
    There must have been something that pushed them to go, maybe rumours of investigation into their closeness, or something going on at home, for her.
    To my mind it would have more likely been her, that wouldn’t wait and forced him to leave, as I do not believe he didnt know what would happen. He may have done it for her protection, because who knows what goes on behind closed doors and within families why has her Step Dad done most of the statements.
    I definitely think there is more to this story than meets the eye!

      • Maybe so, but if she had murdered someone the age of criminal responsibility is after the age of 10 I think, so She knows right from wrong I was merely observing that 16 is the age of consent, she has not been described as having a below average mental age. Yes ultimately he should have been the one to stop it from happening but like I said there is more to this than meets the eye. The ages are all completely relevant within a discussion but not the law. In law he is wrong so not worth the discussion in the first place!

    • You said “To my mind it would have more likely been her, that wouldn’t wait and forced him to leave” How exactly do you imagine she could do this? She was at her mother’s home.

      At some point the two of them met up, he then drove her to the ferry and went to France. Even if she was suggesting that they go, all he had to do was to not show up. Not start the car. Drive her back to her mother’s home. She had no way to “force” him to do anything.

      If she told him she was scared / needed help / didn’t want to go back to her family (we have no evidence at all that that was the case, but hypothetically, it could happen) he STILL had no possible reasopn or justification to do as he did. He could have helped her to contact Social Services. He could have contacted the police. He had lots of options which did not include abducting a child.
      You also say “She knows right from wrong”. That is victim blaming. You’re effectively saying ‘yes, this man abducted (and may have raped or sexually asaulted) a child who was in his care, but she didn’t stop him so it’s her fault as well’

      If a 15 year old knows right from wrong, how much more so should an adult, with speficic training and experience in caring for, and being in a position of trust in relation to, children.

  12. if she was the love of his life she would have been worth waiting for until she was an adult and not in his care. I am of the opinion that he didn’t really want to run away and risk everything. I think he wanted a weekend away and thought he would not get caught. he clearly did not think it through.

    we should be able to send our kids to school and trust that they will be safe with the teachers. girls frequently flirt with older males in whose care they are in as part of growing up and learning boundaries but it Is the responsibility of those adults to set those boundaries and never overstep them.

  13. From what the papers/net has/have reported . ( All is heresay ) .
    The school was told about the situation months ago , nothing happened . The police took her mobile away from her ; she borrowed her brothers one . She used her mothers passport to go to France . The police expected her back on the Monday following , she didn’t come back , so the police issued an EU warrant .
    There is more to this story than has been reported .

  14. I’ve already replied on Twitter regarding why i disagree with a lot of this post.

    It’s not that i disagree with what happened with [name removed] was wrong, of course a teacher and a pupil should never have a relationship, and Forrest should never of got so close to [name removed]. However we don’t know what this relationship was like, only they do. This blog seems to assume that it was abusive, exploitative and our reaction to it is part of this so called ‘rape culture’. From what i’ve read, it seems like a loving relationship, inappropriate yes, but how many of us have fallen for someone who was inappropriate? To group this with the absolute sickening, vile and horrific crimes in Rochdale really is, in my opinion, very wrong.

    When i was 21, I was in my final year at uni. I was in a club in Manchester when i saw a girl hit a man whilst in tears. He seemed to be trying to grope her and she did not like it one bit. In my slight drunken state I went to see if she was alright. We got talking, we swapped numbers, and she became my girlfriend. For two and a half months she said she was 18 at college, before i found out she was 16 and still at school. Before that relationship, i would totally think a relationship with that age difference was weird and inappropriate. My friends and family certainly did too. I really didn’t want to go out with a 16 year old, but, by that point, I was in love. We were together for four years.

    In fact we’ve only recently split up, but are still very, very fond of each other. So i can see how falling for someone much younger is easy to do. And this is a why it annoys me that Megan is referred to as a ‘victim’ as if she’s a simpering, vulnerable girl preyed on by an older man. I don’t know it might of been like that.

    Or it might of been, as it was in my case a totally 50-50 relationship. My girlfriend was INCREDIBLY strong, bloody minded and she would never of done anything she didn’t want to do, and, at the start of the relationship, she was only a few months older than [name removed] is now. She didn’t have any problem standing up for herself, and was in a no way vulnerable. It was a very healthy, equal relationship.

    So with this case we can’t assume anything, only they know there own relationship. So this is why i get annoyed at all the assumptions being bandied about. The line ‘Preventing paedophile sex rings like those in Rochdale starts with our attitudes to [name removed].’ is IMO nonsense – my view of Paedophile sex rings is of absolute disgust. Forced sex of minors is utterly, utterly vile and can ruin lives. My attitude to [name removed] is entirely different.

      • Well i’m very sorry you see everything as so black and white. Your knowledge of the law is, i’m sure, very good but your knowledge of human psychology leaves a lot to be desired.

        You assume that the 30 year old man has all the power just because he’s an older man, and her teacher. We don’t know him at all – do you not think he can be vulnerable? Or are all men of a certain age automatically strong characters who have all the power, whilst all 15 year old girls are simpering, obedient and immature. Trust me this isn’t the case. Human’s are emotional beings, and vary enormously. This is a point you have missed.

        • But you experience was different. You met someone who you believed was an adult. You were not in a position of power with regard to her, you were not in a position of trust.

          Your experience is totally different to the issue being discussed.
          You had a legal, consensual relationship in which there was a (relatively small) age difference.

          In this case, there was a significant imbalance of power, breach of trust, and the victim is a child and below the age of consent, and there is no doubt that Forrest KNEW all of those things (quite apart from the stritcer rules whcih apply to teacher-pupil relationship specifically because of the power imbalance.)

          Saying that an adult teacher is in a position of power in relation to a child who is his pupil does NOT say that ‘all
          15 (or 16) year olds are powerless, obedient, or immature. it says that that is a very unequal relationship, where one party (the pupil) is very vulnerable.

          If this pair had met in a night club, and she were atending a different school to the one he taught at the situation would be different. It would still have ben wholly inappropraite for him to have removed her from her parents care, (although the issue of whether he had a genuine and reasonable belief that she was over 16 would have been much more relevant, although not, I think, a defence to any sexual charge) and there would have been no legal issue with their having a friendship, and , ne she was 16, no bar to a relationship. that isn’t what happened, however.

  15. I began a relationship with a girl whom was the ‘right side of 16′. I was 20 years older than her at the time. She became attracted to me after following a band I was with. And kept coming to our events. After 3 years we started living together. We have been together 12 years and have two adorable children. We had the blessing of her parents and were both wonderfully supportive to our family.

    I hope if their love is true that they consider what they have done and the effect it has had so far on their lives – take a while and (although I doubt it) get back together in time.

      • Okay fair point. But the girl as you state “disappeared” when it was known immediately she had boarded a ferry to France. They had a return ticket. Further there has as yet been no suggestion or admission that this man had had sex with this girl. Equally there have been many cases of female teachers having sex with underage male pupils – high profile cases purely where female teachers have wanted sex – and not love. Perhaps you should include references to these women in your piece “Little Lolita”. Its ludicrous to link this incident to “rape culture” and this teacher to be some kind of monster.

        • Firstly, I invite you to have a look at something called ‘whatboutery’.

          Secondly, I invite you to consider what you are saying. If you cannot see what the problem is here, I am afraid you are likely to be part of it.

  16. Oh dear, where do I start? Why only teachers granted anonymity? What of Assange, Ched Evans? As for Forrest he did not co-erse [name removed], what is the dichotomy of “raping” a 15 yr 11 month 6 day old female or waiting 24 hours and gaining legality?

  17. It is just a very sad case and articles like this do not help. The man has been convicted of nothing, and comment should be reserved for after any court case. This is the sdort of thing The Daily Mail indulges in – jumping to conclusions!

    • No conclusions have been reached by the writer in terms of the case. They may have been assumed by the reader, but I am not responsible for your perception of what you have read, only what I have actually written.

  18. I find the UK attitude to sex baffling. I recall when Charlotte Church “came of age” and there were articles in the gutter papers about how she was now “legal”, like she was fair game, because she was 16.

    I totally agree with what you are saying about “rape culture”. I think its hard at times for us to stand back and look at our attitudes to young people, to sex, to consent.

    The safeguarding issue is an important one. Duty of care can’t be taken for granted.

    And as to the issue of consent, its one thing to be able to consent to allow a sexual act to happen, but to be taken away from your friends, family, country, everything you have known….at 15? That’s one heck of a decision at any age.

  19. I don’t know the exact law in the UK, but in Canada she would be younger than the age of consent. There is a default age of consent, then there are circumstances where that age rises because the older partner is in a position of authority. There’s not much you could say that wouldn’t make me see this as a type of statutory rape. And what he put the girls parents through shouldalso be considered a crime.

      • I am not a lawyer, so you can correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that the phrase “age of consent” is a bit misleading.

        To my, non-legal eye, it does not look as if UK law defines an age of consent, as such, for sexual activity. Instead it establishes certain offences, such as Sexual activity with a child, whose definition makes no reference to consent and against which consent would therefore be no defence.

        Other offences, such as Sexual assault, have definitions that do refer to consent, but do not put an age limit on consent.

        So far as I can see someone caught in bed with a 15 year old would not be able to cite consent as a defence against a charge of Sexual activity with a child. However this is not because the child is deemed incapable of consent, it is because it makes no difference whether (s)he consents or not. If they were charged with Sexual assault, in the same circumstances, then consent would be a defence.

        Is that right? Or have I misread the law.

        Sexual Offences act is here

      • How do you feel about the fact that the legal age of consent is only 14 in countries such as Germany and even as low as 13 in Spain?

  20. Hi,

    I sent a message two days ago but have not reveived a reply. Sorry for reacting so late but I only recently discovered your blog.

    My question was:
    How do you feel about the fact that the legal age of consent is 14 in countries such as Germany and as low as 13 in Spain.

    I am very interested in your thoughts on this.


    • Really sorry for the delay in replying to you! I think ages of consent fit the society in which they serve. If that works for those countries, and there is no evidence to the contrary, then that is a matter for them.

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